Mark Lefever did a radio-interview with Patrick Codenys
on Dec. 13th, 1997.

Welcome to the story of Belgian popmusic. Today I'm talking with Patrick Codenys of Front 242.

(Now they play Welcome To Paradise V1.0)

Front 242 with Welcome To Paradise from Front By Front of 1989. Patrick Codenys, good evening.

Good evening.

Last Summer, you did about 20 concerts with Front 242 after about 4 years of silence. Does that mean that Front 242 is a complete band again?

No, I would consider it as a one-time-shot. The band always has had a strong live reputation and we were thinking about maybe making a new record, but certainly measuring a kind of temperature of the band. We wanted to check how far our renewed sound could go, so for us one of the easiest ways to do that was to play live. Because, we have a direction communication if we play live. If we have proof that everything can work like that, we're on the right track, if we should anticipate a new album…

Was it difficult or easy to reboot the band?

Physically not, because we always have been good friends. Musically, we had to work in the studio to renew the old compositions and versions. But of course, because we still are aware of the new products and bands, it was sometimes really difficult to bring the eighties-composition to a nineties-one. But it worked, according to me.

Did there change a lot for you? Or did it feel just like yesterday that you had quit?

There are some ticks, stereotypes, etc… that exist. It's too bad, but they do. Concerning the music and the concerts, it was a lot of fun. The technology has changed a lot, so it was fun to change an old composition to a new one. There are always some nice surprises.

What kind of audience did you have? The older fans or new ones?

I think there were a lot of the older fans, because we still have a strong fan-base. But also curious people of all ages. A real heterogeneous audience.

You never did split officially, did you?

No, officially, we were on a stand-by (laughs).

You did the Lollapalooza-tour in the States in '93. Did this have anything to do with the silence?

Yes, I think so. You see, we received a kind of rock-medal, if I can call it that, when we could do that tour : 30 cities, every evening 30.000 people. But for us, if I may be critical, it's become a kind of caricature. The electronica is completely assimilated, and as an electronica-band, we get a kind of stereotype image. So that you are hated by rockbands.

But you were renewers with Front 242.

Yes, we were, ehm…, renewers.

Because, you quit when bands like the Prodigy became popular. Didn't it hurt, didn't you ask yourself, why did we quit?

No, you got to look at it with a lot of philosophy. We believed in it. We had satisfaction in what we were doing. That's the most important thing for me. I really fought for the evolution of electronica in rockmusic and so it happened. I don't need a mansion and a swimming pool to show that I have success.

Your colleague, Daniel Bressanutti, said in an interview : you can look at if from two sides. One: The innovators are never the people that make money. Second: we shouldn't have quit in '93 if we wanted to do that.

To make money?

Yes.

Certainly not. But that's not our intention. If you are an artist, you have to be that way in your head and in your heart. I know, if we would release a record now, we would make a lot of money. But it is also important that you can live with the work you deliver.

We take a step back in history. Here's the second single of '82 : U-Men.

(Now they play U-Men)

Front 242 and U-Men. Patrick, Front 242 was actually a fusion of two bands?

No, actually, Front 242 was more like individuals. Like Marc Moulin of Telex did explain: in Belgium, it's very difficult to start a band, especially in the eighties. There weren't a lot musicians, so that more people were into technology. If you don't have a bass-player, you buy a synthesizer, if you don't have a drummer, you buy a rhythm-box. Everybody in the band did have material and a view on what he was going to do. The only chance was that everyone wanted to work in the same direction.

But wasn't it that Daniel worked together with Dirk Bergen, under the name Front 242 and you with Jean-Luc De Meyer?

Yes, we both had a project, a concept.

You weren't educated musicians?

No, and today, we still aren't. Nobody can play ten notes without making an mistake. It was more like we were into technology, we could push buttons and program, but that was just the intention of eighties-electronica.

You did say once : with electronica you can go outside the rockmusic to film and info. Do you still agree with that?

In the eighties, there were a lot of English and American bands, but in the seventies there was something called the German anti-rock. Bands like Kraftwerk, Can, Neu. They wanted to proof that music doesn't have to be English. With electronica, they had the possibility to put sounds or noise together instead of notes. That was the beginning of a new kind of music, based on a more global, universal sound.

And you could have a lot of fun with that music. If you listen to records of fifteen years ago, you can hear, they did have a lot of fun making those records.

It was a whole different atmosphere. The only problem was, it didn't have any flexibility like now. And you can hear that. It was very difficult to release something that people would enjoy then.

Do you go for the newest of the newest on the terrain of technology?

Yes, it has always been this way. Research was our motto.

Is it correct that you hardly rehearsed, that the songs weren't made that way?

No no, it was structured like this : you had a piece of this and a piece of that and everyone did his thing. We did have a baseline and a songline, because you have to attract people with at least something., not only make noise. We had to have a song-structure. We had a few formats, but still we were people who liked to experiment with our instruments.

When was a song complete?

When we liked it, it's just that easy. If it did have enough research and enough kick. When it had a structure.

And was that a unanimous decision? Was there a democracy inside Front 242?

Yes, it has always been like that.

In 1982, the first album Geography is released, on the label New Dance. How was that received then, do you remember that?

Those were difficult times, because nobody believed in this music. Even today, it's sometimes difficult. We did everything on our own. It was a complete auto-production. We had to look up a press agency, a printing-office, bring the records to the label.

Very difficult.

Yes, we even had to buy some records back from the label, because we didn't sell all 2.000 copies. Today, we have sold 300.000 copies of that album.

Never despair.

Right.

Also, your concerts were different with three people in front, and one in the back, on the mixing-table. How did people react?

It was kind of revolutionary. The idea was followed by Nitzer Ebb, The Prodigy, … It was important to us to have control of the sound, so we did need someone behind the mixing-table. We needed a interaction between the mixing-table, the recording, the machines on stage and two people that could move around. It was a logical circle between humans and machines.

From 1983, Front 242 and Take One.

(Now they play Take One)

Front 242 and Take One. Patrick, you called your music Electronic Body Music, I suppose that meant that moving was important to you, the people had to dance?

Yes, when we went to see an electronica-band in the eighties, we always saw three or four guys behind their keyboards and they didn't move. For me, there was just as much muscles and energy in electronica than in rock 'n' roll. So, one of the most important things for us when we played live, was to be able to communicate with the audience. And body meant to us, that the head was equally important as the body. I think there was a kind of intellectual side to what we were doing.

You also came up with the term bpm, beats per minute. Didn't you do that, I believed you did, didn't you?

Yeah, we did.

Why did you do that?

Because our music was based on that. If you listen to Take One, that was just on, you have a lot of ping-pong elements. We used the term bpm to know if a piece had to be quick or slow. Also we thought, if we wanted to bring that electronica to a kind of dance-beat, the bpm would come in handy.

That's clear. Because everybody uses it nowadays. When did it become clear that Front 242 could be important, or didn't you feel that way?

No, still today, I fight for creating better music, to push the limits. We are an element of a entire movement, that still keeps moving. Life itself keeps moving. Only journalists, fans or other people made us clear how important we were or are, but we don't feel that.

Who inspired you, what kind of music?

In the beginning, the entire industrial-movement, from Kraftwerk, Can, to Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltaire, but also people like Brian Eno, for example, who were very important.

The year 1986 was important for you, because you made contact with Play It Again Sam, the label. And the boss of that label, Kenny Gates, saw you as a band who was going to make it. He said : I didn't only see musicians and people who didn't want to have anything to do with the traditional rockstereotypes.

It was so that we always did have a healthy relationship with our labels, especially in the United States. They signed us for nothing, only for the music. Wax Trax was our label in America, and that was a very healthy relationship.

Why did you choose for relative small labels?

Because big labels weren't interested in us, that's just as simple (laughs).

Your first album, Official Version, with Play It Again Sam, I mean, was a important step ahead.

Maybe concerning the structure.

It sold very well in Belgium.

Yeah, perhaps, but the way of working was still very simple. There were no studio-expenses, no production-expenses. It was still self-made, in our own studio. Instead of a four-track, we had an eight-track. But it still was self-made. It was so that on a marketing and commercial level, people were more curious.

Also success in Germany, Great Britain, America. Did you change because of the success?

No, because our success was still the same. Front 242 doesn't make a record that sells gold in a country, but that sells pretty good everywhere. It was more of a reputation that we build, and now, it is still so.

We are going to listen to that record, Official Version, and we're going to play Quite Unusual.

(Now they play Quite Unusual)

Front 242 and Quite Unusual. Patrick Codenys, in 1987, Belgium was completely taken over by New Beat. Everybody is pointing at Front 242, but Daniel, your colleague, says : you could say we initiated it, but musically, I don't see any resemblance, I feel a much stronger link with House. Do you feel the same way?

Yes, I agree. I think, New Beat was electronica, and that's the only connection it has with us. But for me, it has taken the more popular side of Front, and then vulgarized it. What was important to us, like the research and to make pieces with noise and sounds, House took the spirit away from that hard dance-beat, which I found much more interesting.

Didn't you ever created a New Beat-album in secret?

No, never.

It was possible.

No, it wasn't (laughs).

Were you able to live of the music in that period, or did you still have jobs?

We still had jobs, music was for the evening and the week-ends.

Did it have to stay that way?

Until Front By Front, in 1989, then we quit working. It also was so that our money immediately was invested in our studio. Because we were dependent of technology, we had to invest. Our intention wasn't to become a popstar and to watch our new TV. Our intention was to grow and that's why it kept us a while before we became professional.

But didn't an investment became less expensive, that you could buy more with less money?

But the quality of our machines had to be better. The people don't expect a new album to be the same as the previous one. Our investments became less expensive, but the quality was still important.

In Front 242, did everyone have a task, or did you all work together?

Everyone had a specific task. And we all improved our abilities. In electronica, you always have to create a new philosophy. So we wanted to become better and better with more experience. There are no rules. In rockmusic, there are rules, bassist + guitar + drums + singer, you immediately have a result. In electronica, in the eighties, it was very difficult and we had to work hard.

So you did everything yourself. And can you explain a bit on the tasks?

Yeah, I can give you a typical example. Daniel, who's a drummer, would start with a drum- and baseline. I would work on it with my own sampling. Then, Richard also had his own samples that were injected in the song. And then we tried to make a structure in the song, so that the singer had the chance to make a complete song of it. Didn't it work out, then it would be an instrumental song (laughs).

Then we go to the period of Front By Front, you work together with Anton Corbijn, who made the clip for Headhunter. And it seems to be that Anton understood the title of the song to be Egghunter, so the clip was full of eggs.

Even after he knew it was Headhunter, he still wanted to keep the eggs (laughs).

Anton Corbijn was already quite famous, with his work with U2 and Depeche Mode, bands who wanted to make it in America. Was that also your intention?

Not exactly, if you look at the work of Anton Corbijn, he was the photographer of Joy Division, who's always been a important band to us. Also, because he was Dutch, he had great ideas of an absurd world. For us, Belgians, it was interesting to work with him, he had his own philosophy and an international quality.

We're going to listen to that record, Front By Front, here's Headhunter.

(Now they play Headhunter V3.0)

Front 242 and Headhunter. Patrick Codenys, I have here the stuff of 1991, of the record Tyranny For You, and I see the name Art & Strategy appear for the first time. I first thought that was the name you used when you worked on the graphics, but then also the studio became Art & Strategy. And also a business-agency that's going to take care of the management of bands like Ashbury Faith and Ozark Henry. Are you good managers?

No (laughs), it's not good to do bad publicity, but I think to be a manager you have to fulfil a certain job. I think we can be good artistical consultants. But as a manager, you'll always be close to the band. And that's what we do, we keep too close to the band. And some of the businesses are nothing for us. I think that Art & Strategy must continue to be a studio and have a certain artistical line, style. But the business for me is contracts and certain people.

You mention an artistical line, does that mean that you have to make choices : this band can be in the studio, but not that band?

It's not like we do a lot of productions, but in our remix-policy, we make those choices. For instance, this year, we have refused 50% of the bands. We liked people like Juno Reactor and Empirion, that's on the same label as The Prodigy and also The Orb. We have refused Die Krupps, because that was EBM.

What kind of advise do you give to bands like Ashbury Faith?

It's always artistical advise. One of the advises I always give is to believe in the music they make, to accept advise from other people. And always keep stubborn, because there are no rules in music, to make a hit for example.

Now, concerning Front, you try to leave the monotony of the beat by constantly experimenting with new sounds? Was that because the technology didn't give a lot of possibilities or because I gave too much possibilities?

No, because there weren't enough sounds in a rhythm-box, for example. It's quite limited. But to obtain a groove, today, the rhythm-boxes are technologically good enough to do that. But then, the sounds were still stiff. And to obtain a kind of groove, we had to work with other 'satellite'-sounds.

Don't you feel too dependent of the technology?

Yes, but that's what built you esthetically, then. You had limits. But it's like an exercise, you have to try to achieve something with those limits. Today, there are people who work with technology, who have only a couple of synthesizers, one or two, and still try to make a record with two synthesizers. Nobody ever said you have to have a lot of technology to make something good.

In 1993, with Fuck Up Evil, for the first time, there were real guitars in Front.

Yes, but sampled (laughs). That has been quite a dispute for us. Actually, I'm totally allergic to guitars, unless there's a big treatment. But there are always some exceptions like Joy Division and Garbage, for example, I think they have nice structures in their songs and that they bring new stuff into the music.

But, if you could choose : no guitars.

No.

Very democratic band…

Yeah (laughs).

Front 242 and Modern Angel.

(Now they play Animal Guide)

Yeah, if you mean the entire evolution of underground, industrial, which started in the early seventies or even before, with experimental music. I think there's a history between all those bands, that try to bring music differently, sometimes darker. I think Front was a part of this entire evolution.

Were you a link between music before Front and the music today?

Yeah, of course, like other bands too. I think Kraftwerk also became a big 'institution'. Other bands too, but in different proportions.

Are you a lot consulted by a younger generation?

Yes, sometimes, but not that often. One of the particularities of electronica is that people work at home, in a kind of secret environment, concept or unity. I think it's the way to keep as close as possible to your own ideas.

Do you find the technology today still as interesting and fascinating as before?

Yes, I think the philosophy has changed. Like I said, it's not necessary anymore to have a big experience as an artist to come up with a result. That's one the biggest changes. The philosophy and concepts have changed, but technology is still fascinating.

You said, in a recent Humo-interview, that the Chemical Brothers are a big mystery, that it was hard to discover how the music was made, and that for someone that's so close to this music.

Yeah, you have kind of an idea, but maybe I don't want to know. I have gained a lot of knowledge on technology, and it's not difficult anymore to analyze music, but for me, new music must always be kind of a surprise. With the Chemical Brothers, I didn't want to know, and that's the way it is.

We're gonna leave it with that. Thanks for coming to the studio. Now, an unreleased version of First In / First Out from Front By Front which was on the CD which came with the magazine Gonzo Circus. Front 242.

(Now they play First In/First Out (Unreleased Live Version))

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